Things to test later: Tailwind counters, Petal Blizzard + Sap Sipper
deaglebeagle: so it looks like tar krookodile greninja gengar scizor chandy, one of those should be on every team
deaglebeagle: or something that stops perish song
deaglebeagle: like taunt
Tips:
1. Don't use a physical mon with sash, because you cannot lead with it vs intimidate and if you switch in when it is in the back, sash breaks
2. Don't use moves under 90% accuracy ever
3. Need Chandelure in TR, but don't lead without Intimidate ally versus Kanga on their 6, or if they have Mawile on their 6 but you lack sash
4. If you see Ludicolo or another random swift swimmer/chlorophyll user that is not very good unless there is weather assisting it, then assume they use rain dance/sunny day with an ally; especially one whom gets priority; like Sableye or Meowstic.
Usable spread moves for power in TR: Heat Wave (Chandelure), Dark Void, Rock Slide, Earthquake, Sludge Wave, Surf, Discharge
Usable Levitators/Flying types: Dragonite, Zapdos, Charizard, Aerodactyl, Crobat, Talonflame, Gengar, Salamence, Starraptor, Rotom forms, Hydreigon
Threats and how to counter them:
Kangaskhan-Mega @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Parental Bond
EVs: 252 Atk / 240 HP / 16 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Power-Up Punch
- Sucker Punch
- Frustration
This set allows Kangaskhan to use its ability to get in a lot of priority hits, and Power-Up Punch is used to increase its offense; as well as deal with Rock and Steel Types. The first hit could break a Chople Berry, and the second hits them without their berry; thus doing more damage. Frustration is a strong STAB move. I picked Adamant with bulk, because the emphasis is on the power of its priority and more bulk allows it to more effectively use Power-Up Punch to improve its power; speed is not really needed. It could be used on some kind of alternate set though. This set was made for singles so it may not be ideal for doubles.
OR
Kangaskhan-Mega @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Parental Bond
EVs: 252 Atk / 148 Spd / 104 HP / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Power-Up Punch
- Sucker Punch
- Fake Out
This set is made for out-speeding many more things and not relying nearly as much on Sucker Punch for finishing things off or in general. I have never used Kangaskhan, but I feel this set is the best in doubles. The other set is made more for singles.
Counter Kangaskhan by: Will O Wisp especially by priority with wide lens/zoom lens, Intimidate, Foul Play after it raises its Atk, Lum fighting types that OHKO (Conkeldurr, Machamp, etc) faster fighting types (Mienshao, Mega Lucario, etc), Ghost types that beat Sucker Punch (Aegislash, Gengar, etc), Zapdos with Twave and Roost w/ Rocky Helmet, Mega Zard with OH, Pain Split? etc
The Gardy Kanga combo is annoying. Even if they don't lead with it, you have to be worried about them having both on the same team. Since almost all the Intimidate users get countered hard by Gardevoir, it creates a big problem. Mawile is the only Intimidate user that counters through this. Be especially careful to beat Scarf Timid Gardevoirs (up to 145 speed before Scarf).
Gardy Kanga counters: Mawile-Mega, Aegislash, Sashed Gengar, Chandy if with Intimidate ally - needs to wall Dazzling Gleam + Sucker Punch from Kanga and Gardy - Busted since if it walls both it has really bad speed, Scizor, Escavalier, Ferrothorn, Lucario-Mega, Zard + Chlorophyll ally like Venusaur, Hawlucha, Drizzle + Swift Swim ally - Busted, since they wall it easily, Scarf Nidoking ohkos Gardy 75% of the time assuming they lack any kind of bulk, Will O Wisp with a fast mon like Zard X or Super Gourgeist with that and Leech Seed, Skunktank with Foul Play (Since it isn't weak to Psychic nor Moonblast) or Klefki but it is weaker. Scarf Machamp. http://veekun.com/dex/pokemon/search?sort=evolution-chain&introduced_in=1&introduced_in=2&introduced_in=3&introduced_in=4&introduced_in=5&introduced_in=6&in_pokedex=14&in_pokedex=13&in_pokedex=12&type=fighting
Belly Drum Azumarill Counters: Amoonguss, Safety Goggles Rotom-W, Will O Wisp, Fake Out, Taunt, Ferrothorn, Ludicolo, Feint, Faster Priority, Foul Play, Drought, Quick Guard, Venusaur, Aegislash with Sub', Focus Sash, Reflect, Dry Skin, Grass Types, Topsy Turvy, Haze, Punishment, Power Swap, Psych Up, Unnerve to disable their Sitrus Berry, Incinerate, Bug Bite, Sky Drop, Pluck, Follow Me, Intimidate
Lucario vs. Mienshao debate:
Lucario pros: They expect it to mega evolve, so may fake out it, but it has inner focus. It has more accurate moves. It has a STAB priority move that SE's some things (like gardy) and hits everything. It has better defensive typing.
Lucario cons: It is not as fast as Mienshao and Mienshao is slightly more powerful. Its ability is the same as Mienshao's. Some could argue that pure Fighting type is a better typing, since it is less likely to be weak to things. However this is debatable, because Lucario resists more things with its typing and this seems more useful while holding a focus sash.
Most of these kinds of differences between Mienshao and Lucario are very slight. The main difference I see is the speed, accuracy of its move used to kill Kanga (since that is its main point of using either mon), and the effectiveness of their 4th moves. Bullet Punch seems more useful than Feint, but it is definitely debatable; since Feint going through protect can change a game around. These moves are all debatable, but I will post both of my sets. I recommend Mienshao, because it out-speeds Kanga before it attacks, and most Kanga's do not have protect; or at least won't use it. It also does not have the "scare factor" of someone being scared off of a perceived Lucario-Mega lead. They expect Drain Punch on Mienshao.
Mienshao @ Focus Sash
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Fake Out
- Rock Slide
- Feint
Lucario @ Focus Sash
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
EVs: 236 Spd / 252 Atk / 20 Def
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Rock Slide
- Protect
- Bullet Punch
Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 140 HP / 4 SDef / 108 Spd / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Bullet Punch
- Protect
- Swords Dance
Nidoking @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Earth Power
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam
Usable spread moves in or outside TR: " " and Icy Wind, Electroweb, Hyper Voice
Usable FO Users: Below listed, and Mienshao and Kangaskhan
Useful FO users in tr: Ludicolo, Mr. Mime (only with Chandelure as a TR user), Blastoise, Scrafty
Useful attackers in TR: Life Orb Tar, Specs Chandelure, Mega Mawile, CB Aggron with Sturdy,
Usable supporting ally moves: Rage Powder
Usable Ground attackers: Krookodile, Rhyperior, Hippowdon, Mamoswine, Garchomp
Tailwind Counters: Faster Tailwind team, Trick Room, Taunt, Snatch, Thunder Wave, Glare, Protect/Wide Guard/King's Shield etc Spam, Prankster Encore, Intimidate, Bulky pokemon
Spore counters (not listing things with a < 90% chance of working): Safeguard, Grass Types, Lum Berry, Safety Goggles, Taunt, Chesto Berry, Magic Bounce, Insomnia, Vital Spirit, Sleep Talk, Substitute, Magic Coat, Imprison Spore, Misty Terrain, Forest Curse ally, Ally Switch, Electric Terrain, Faster spore, Reflect type, Torment (kinda), Disable (kinda), Snore, Uproar, Early Bird, Sweet Veil, Leaf Guard, Natural Cure, Hydration, Marvel Scale, Guts,
Usable Safeguarders: Chandelure, Meowstic, Klefki, Venusaur, Vileplume, Alakazam, Slowking, Kangaskhan, Scizor, Dragonite, Ampharos, Gardevoir, Abomasnow, Gothitelle, Golurk, Sylveon,
Usable Intimidators: Salamence, Gyarados, Scrafty, Mawile, Krookodile
Usable TR mons: Slowbro, Malamar, Gardevoir, Chandelure, Slowking, Gothitelle
Synchronoise = Only works versus very few mons, and hits ally
Sticky Web = Doesn't affect the two leading mons, only 4 pokemon used in VGC so it doesn't reach very much potential, only mons who learn it are gimmicky/bad, doesn't affect flying/levitating/balloon pokemon, but overall it is usable, but not great overall
Mr. Mime = for sure worse than Gardevoir even with a niche move in TR, unless maybe you use Fake Out
Jynx = not good for TR or Fake Out Support, bad ability, bad typing, does not add move variety, low defense
Chandelure = Only usable if an Intimidate ally on your team to weaken Sucker Punch from Kangaskhan or Mega Mawile, and that Intimidator cannot lead, or use Focus Sash
Ludicolo = Needs Coba Berry if used in TR
Pikachu = Priority moves kill it easily, weak defense
Exploud = Doesn't resist much, doesn't SE much, not powerful enough to be worth it
Qwilfish = Not good enough defensive or offensive typing, bad movepool, not suited for TR
Lightningrod = Tested the best lightningrod user there is (Marowak), and it was not useful at all
Cloud Nine = Golduck doesn't work, since cannot OHKO Zard with LO but can with specs, but it only has two good moves, Altaria lacks power and good moves to work well, Lickilicky needs Life Orb/Band to OHKO Zard with Rock Slide
Politoed in TR = not worth it, I can just use Mega Blastoise instead - good enough
Ariados = Decent with String Shot, but Vivillion is better
Vivillion = Good with String Shot, Sleep Powder with Compoundeyes, and gimmicky moves like Powder can be used with it
Smeargle = Not usable since safeguard has priority with many pokemon and too many anti-sleep stuff in general
Rotom-h = Not that useful in EQ discharge since Rotom-W causes great problems and overheat generally does not help much, but counters Charizard-Y well
Pyroar = Usable, good with Zard on the team, not great but good enough, filler though
Gothitelle = With competitive it is OK, Shadow Tag probably is a better ability even for a tr team though, usable tr user but there are prob better pokemon to use like Gardevoir
Aegislash = Usable, but it is made more for singles than doubles, it relies on priority moves to have any kind of speed, and has bad offensive and defensive typing
EQ in TR = won't work, as there are no immunities to EQ that are TR or Fake Out users besides Gardevoir, so I need Chandelure if I want to use a tr team or don't use one at all since Steel types wall me
Fire attackers in TR = need Tar if using two or more, or if a TR user (Like Chandelure)
Aegislash counters: http://veekun.com/dex/pokemon/search?sort=evolution-chain&in_pokedex=14&in_pokedex=13&in_pokedex=12&type=dark&type=fire&type=ghost&type=ground
Beat priority dual screens: Infiltrator, Brick Break, Magic Bounce, Defog
- Possible users:
Scizor, Dragonite (in TR, Defog) - Both are not worth using
Absol, Espeon (Magic Bounce) - Busted
Brick Break (tons of pokemon, like Granbull, Tar) - Not good enough, unless leading with the user
Infiltrator (Chandelure, etc) - Good if leading
Pinsir-Mega Counters: Aerodactyl, Jolteon, Rotom-W, Greninja, Talonflame, Manectric. This mon does not work, because Scarf attacks like Fire Blast, Rock Slide, etc beat it too easy. It also does not OHKO anything unless it SE's.
deaglebeagle: I like rock tomb better IF
deaglebeagle: 1. I don't get stab rock moves
deaglebeagle: 2. I am somewhat slow or medium speed
deaglebeagle: because less flinching
deaglebeagle: more accuracy with rock tomb
deaglebeagle: lowers speed
Usable BST's:
TR:
Chandelure - 385
Slowbro - 385
Slowking - 385
Gardevoir - 373
Exegguttor - 370
Aromatisse - 361
Malamar - 341
Mr. Mime - 325
Non TR or TR:
Machamp - 440
Conkeldurr - 450
Avalugg @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 SDef / 248 HP / 8 Atk
Brave Nature
IVs: 30 Def / 30 SAtk / 30 SDef / 30 Spd
- Avalanche
- Rock Slide
- Crunch
- Earthquake
This set takes advantage of its physical and special bulk with Assault Vest.
Competitive:
Gothitelle @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Competitive
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Psychic
- Trick Room
- Energy Ball
- Safeguard
Poison Gas:
Swalot @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Calm Nature
- Poison Gas
- Venoshock
- Protect
- Stockpile
Gyarados @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Careful Nature
- Waterfall
- Protect
- Rest
- Ice Fang
Manectric @ Manectite
Ability: Lightningrod
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Calm Nature
- Overheat
- Protect
- Substitute
- Volt Switch
Goodra @ Assault Vest
Ability: Gooey
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
- The team of 4 could be tampered with a little bit to improve it. I think taking some Sp D off Manectric and putting it into Sp. Atk could prove useful for finishing off things; thus preventing an attack from hitting it or its partner and being better than more bulk.
Sap Sipper + Petal Blizzard
Miltank @ Life Orb
Ability: Sap Sipper
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 212 HP / 4 SDef / 36 Spd / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Rock Slide
- Ice Punch
- Icy Wind
Venusaur-Mega @ Venusaurite
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 204 Spd / 52 Atk
Careful Nature
- Petal Blizzard
- Protect
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
